Dog lovers beware.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/09/police ... index.html

It's hard to say what really happened, the officers should have had their "suspects" close the doors if they didn't feel it was safe to do themselves, for whatever reason. In my experience, dogs are either hostile towards an individual or they're not, there's rarely a middle ground.
If the dog was displaying threatening behavior I would have used my mace, or in an extreme case, my baton.

 

Ach, I saw that story on Connie Chung, it was horrible. I'm generally a great supporter of policemen, but for some reason it just seems that they're way too eager to blow away the family pet. Last year here in Burbank police responded to a noise complaint and ended up killing the family's 14-year-old, crippled Labrador who barked at them as they entered the house. Evil, evil people.

In my experience, a normal, well-adjusted dog has as many responses towards an individual as a person has, ranging from indifferent all the way to love or open hostility. Shepherds, huskies, and retrievers in particular are known for their wide range of social responses.... In general, the more a dog resembles a wolf, the better it is at communicating. Some other dogs, well, let's just say it's easier to communicate with a rabbit. Honestly, they have all the vocabulary of a 2-3 month-old wolf pup. Artificial selection has largely done a great disservive to canines.

Well anyway, it's absurdly dificult to get a normal dog to make the jump to open hostility, and even if he gets there there are so many ways of diffusing the situation there's just no excuse for blowing its head off. I mean, if I can do it, it's not unreasonable to expect the same level of competency from a peace officer.

Sorry. Rambling.

 

I hate stupid police like that. I've seen a few good cops before. The ones that talk to you about stuff that most cops will stare at you suspiciously for (like skateboarding).

That is total bullshit though. What are police gonna do when investiage a noise complaint, and the owner of the house just makes a loud grunting noise at them? Shoot him?

Goddamnit, I'm sounding like an animal rights activist hippie. :hippy:

 

When you have a hammer, all problems look like nails.

The problem with guns, is their portrail in the media. The good guys have guns. The bad guys have guns. The only difference is, the good guys can shoot straight. They both use their guns as the first problem solving tool for every problem.

And if you can't even fire a cop for blatently murdering a black man, you are not going to be able to even repramand one for killing a dog.

The problem with cops is they all have guns & they all volentered for the job. And far too many are power tripping. And all of them, even the best, wear big blue blinders.

I once saw a summer program for law enforcement Explorer Scouts. I have NEVER seen so many high school bullies in my life. We should draft cops. And if they want to reenlist, we should shoot them.

 

Yeah, that's what we should do. Shoot them. And then throw our guns away, though, cause remember, guns are bad. Oh yeah, and life would be so much better without cops around, wouldn't it.

I think that your view of cops is mostly media-induced. Remember, good news doesn't sell, so they are not going to report the thousands and thousands of good honest police men and women, upholding the law. I agree, there are some power-tripping cops out there. But, remember, for every bad cop shown on t.v., there are who knows how many of hundreds or thousands of good ones.

Don't let the media blind you. Could you imagine a world without law? I wouldn't want to be a part of it.

 

Farmer, my view of cops comes from being 58 years old, having been a beatnick & hippie, even having a best friend, for over 40 years who went from being a cop wannabe to the oldest rookie in the San Francisco PD to being a disenchanted ex-cop. I have known & liked a lot of cops, BUT, I really think we should never let someone volinteer for that job. And I also think we don't pay them near enough.

Another problem with cops. They think their job is to catch crooks. It is not. The job is protecting the public. Here in Seattle, a few years ago, we had a slimy serial rapist in Ballard. His MO was to drag little old ladies into the bushes, rape them, & steal their things. Because the cops wanted to catch him, the fact that any restance at all would scare him off was NEVER RELEASED to the public. About 6 more LOLs were raped. They never did catch him. And then there are all those innocent men on death row. 50% in some states. How did they get there? Might cops have something to do with that? And what about all the killers that walk free because of that?

Sorry, we do need laws & someone to enforce them. Do you think we have the best system? A flawed but good system? A fately flawed but workable system? An excelent system that cannot be improved on?

And why cannot we manage to fire & jail cops who commit torture & murder?

 

I come from an extended family that has seen no less than 4 men serve as law enforcement officers. From state police to the FBI and finally myself, currently serving the Navy as military police. Also, numerous men in my family have served our country's military since World War I. I take it as in insult that you believe that's where societies miscreants should be placed. Needless to say, I certainly find your views to be askew in the extreme Shadygrove, in the future please try and think before you speak.

 

Who said anything about miscreants? I believe that a true repubilic should have universal public service, but that service should not be limited to the military. Any slightly crappy, unaprecaited, under paid public sector job should qualify. Nurses' Aids at the VA hospitals, street sweepers, cops, laborers for the National Forest Service, deckhands for NOAA core ships, as well as the uniformed services. No, 4 years of college & a set of bars would not qualify, get your street creds in the ranks first. But if we took the current MD intership, made it 2 years & let them sleep occasionaly instead of the current 52 80 to 120 hour weeks, that would certanly qualify.

OK, the bit about shooting them if they wanted to re-up was a tad extreme.

I have known a lot of good, dedicated cops, but a lot more power trippers. Get them out of the cars, put them back into contact with the people. Remember, they only ever see the worst of us. But the worst of them break much more than just laws, and the entire C-J system protects those who should be prosicuted.

Do you think we only drafted miscreants when we had a draft? You must know someone with US tags.

PS, I think my buddy started his love affair with law enforcement as an MP in Nam, but I don't think it was his MOS. I don't know why it took him so long to get in, but something political in the department broke his heart, & he left then.

 

I think that this whole incident is horrible. I believe that a lot of times, cops do a good job. I'm glad that they're around to enforce the law and keep things in line. However, this whole episode disgusts me. Their treatment of the people was horrendous, putting them face down on the road, handcuffing them, and refusing to tell them what was going on or shutting the door so the dogs wouldn't get out. That whole thing was wrong, the situation shouldn't have been handled like that. The dog thing was horrible though. That is one person I don't want to have a gun. He killed a dog that was trotting up wagging his tail. I don't know many dogs that wag their tails then attack. That guy was being extremely trigger happy. That dog didn't deserve (or need to) be shot.

 

Fair enough, BTW I used the term "miscreant" rather than "bully," sorry to have not been clearer.

 

Depends on the type of tail-wagging. A dog displaying his tail high and vibrating it swiftly is making a gesture of dominance. A dog holding it even and swishing or swaying it back and forth is generally relaxed and friendly. A dog holding his tail low and wagging it violently with his whole hips is making a gesture of submission and potential insecurity. Dog A and Dog B could possibly bite (either out of fear or dominance), but Dog B almost certainly will not.

All sorts of other factors should be considered as well, since the dog does not communicate exclusively with his tail, but the point is all tail-wagging is not the same. I've known several people who were bitten by their own dog displaying Wag Type A and then were shocked because, "he was wagging his tail! That means he's friendly and happy!" Oddly, all the incidents I know of personally involved small dogs.... Small dogs, bah.

Not that this dog in question deserved it. Far from it. I agree with you about the uttter wrongness of the whole affair.

 

Personally I want decisive police actions but then I also want cops to think before they do something.

 

This incident sickened me to no end. I have little or no use for cops to begin with, that certainly didn't help to change my opinion of them. With a few exceptions they're little more than government sanctioned bullies in my opinion.

I know one thing, a cop shoots my dog, he's either going to be shooting me as well, or getting a boot in the face. Or that cop might find himself with a whole new world of problems. Like a sniper rifle trained on his forehead from across the street from his house. But that's just me. I've no tolerance for thugs with or without a badge.

 

~stands with the unpopular view~

My opinion has stemmed from what I've seen.

I spent my a good portion of my teenage years living on the streets of a small city. In that time I saw gods know HOW much money pass through the hands of the "City's Finest". There was a dope or crack dealer that operated right across the street from the high school. I watched him make a deal with a beat cop no more than twenty feet away. Then when the deal was done, the cop walked by the dealer and the dealer handed off to him.
What did I do? Nothing of course, because I didn't feel like getting dragged 'downtown' and having a plunger shoved up my ass, for pointing out that the city's finest were its finest criminals.

I've seen good people go to jail and come back soulless husks. I've seen cops smack someone down like the local mobsters, simply for being the wrong color, or having long hair. I've seen cops shrug and drink coffee while violent crimes were taking place a few yards away.

I saw a 14 year old girl get raped and ultimately die, while the cops did NOTHING. Even after I did the good citizen thing and reported what I saw.. I got what is tanamount to laughed out of the station. Apparently that wasn't good enough to warrant an investigation. Maybe it's just because she was a runaway, or a crack whore, maybe a prostitute. I don't think she was any of the above, except for a runaway.

I followed, with interest, the exploits of a new State Police Chief (or whatever they're called) as he tried to clean up the department, and got stonewalled by a secret 'gang' 'rumoured' to be operating within the department. He resigned a few months ago.

I had cops come to my apartment, and arrest me for "failure to appear in court for drug charges." Imagine my confusion, as I've had no kind of criminal record since I turned 18. I'd never even been arrested for any kind of drug charges. So the bastards cuffed me and stuffed me in the back of the car. Even though I told them there must be some mistake, because failing to appear in court requires that a court date be issued, and an arrest made. I've had neither. They drove me to the station, and kept me there for three hours. Then finally came out and said. "It's not the right guy." Well gee, didn't I say that in the beginning of this mess? Then they turned to me ad said "You're free to go. Sorry for the incovenience. Have a nice day."
Then they left me to walk about a mile back to my apartment in the pouring rain. To serve and protect, indeed.

Nay, my view doesn't come from being a hippie or a beatnick, though I've dabbled in both. My view comes from the streets. And the gross abuse of power I've seen. The ones that no one likes to admit exist in the good ol' united states. The ones that get dismissed as media hype.

Then I check a link a friend sent, and I find this story. The story of a bunch of redneck pigs making a so-called 'felony stop' of a vacationing family. And instead of realizing they made a mistake, and sending the folks on their way, they played holier than thou and shot the family's dog. When it all could have been avoided by simply closing a door. But the cops are too good for that. Cops are never wrong. Oh well, we shot somebody's pet. Sorry for the inconvenience. Have a nice day.

Pray, tell! How is this supposed to improve my allready soured opinion of cops?

 

I've not had the experience of most of you out there, and from what I've heard, I almost don't want to. I live in a place with one of the lowest crime rates in the country, possibly the world, yet I hear on the news that they celebrate the fact that there has not been a murder in a month. It disgusts me, it literally makes me sick to my stomach to hear about such things. And then to top it off I hear things like this, where some of our own police, the people we trust to watch us as we sleep are almost as bad as those who they swore they would put away. It just makes me wonder.

 

Yes, there are bad cops. Yes, there is corruption. What are you doing? Are you becomming a cop to try to fix all that? There are people that are cops because they care, and there are people that are trying to help. Not all cops are "thugs" as you call them, they have a job to do, and many do it. Do you think that we would be better off without cops? That seems very idealistic to me.

 

I don't mean to speak for TairNean, but what from what I understand of what he said, he did try to do something and he was bullied by corrupt cops (or so it seems). He's also not saying that all cops are corrupt, just a lot of them are.

 

Isn't it in the Constitution/Bill of Rights that the law may not evade, search, or destroy personal property without an official warrant. Now, I belive this occured in the US, right? If so, then they just broke that law and ought to be punished, or at least thoroughly questioned and, maybe, degraded or stripped of their rank/job.

I live on a Native American reservation here in the USA. The problem around here is that, because of laws, white policemen can't arrest native troublemakers, and native policemen can't arrest whites. Now, that is a problem, because everyone in the department are white except one officer; Officer Sam, he is called. He is often buisy or out of town, however, so the huge native american gangs around here run free, and he often can't do anything when he is around. He as gotten beaten by them more than once, but hasn't been able to do a thing.

I guess the problem kinda goes both ways; the police need more power, but they have too much power at the same time....

 

Man, I am so glad I live in Australia. It's big news here if the cops shoot to wound. Front page news if they shoot to kill. And people wondered when I was younger why I said I didn't want to go to America.