Cadbury Conspiracy

the "fundie" has to agree with Xz on this one. we teach that everyone is born evil, that we must learn to be good. hence, niceness is not something we do naturally. to see that rule in action, toss a candybar into a room of three year olds. since most parents don't bother teaching manners until it's too late to make a difference, there will be general chaos and hate until the strongest baby emerges victorious. if, however, you were to give that candybar to Amy and tell her to share, she will. mainly because she knows i'll smack her bottom if she doesn't. i'm teaching her to be nice... and it's still not for the sake of being nice. she's nice to avoid punishment and/or get applause from me. and why do i teach her manners? because i want applause from my God. no one is altruistic. except Jesus.

 

I think being nice is actually something that one develops as the brain grows older and more complete.

Xz, your example really has nothing to do with being nice. What you're talking about is trading, I give you food, you give me water. Being nice and hoping other people are nice to you would be something like you give me food when I'm hungry and can't buy it myself, hoping, that (years) later, when you're hungry, I'll feed you.

And that is something that requires you to learn that it's good to be nice. If you didn't learn it, you'd have no reason to think that I'd feel I was in debt to you, while in your example, you simply wouldn't trade.

 

Five-years plans = it will not work.

But! If there is a one-year plan, it will however work, because in five years much can happen, but not particulary will happen in a year, and if something happens, then you can always change small thing in the one-year plan.

 

Yes of course! See, planned economy is good after all, right? If we have One-year plans then.

 

He totally didn't get the sarcasm.

 

Uhm... that was a joke?

 

Xz, I don't think I've been misunderstanding you, because what I originally argued was that being nice to people is natural, not something unnatural that only comes out of being egoistic.

Later I told you that since people from every culture learns it, and even animals, it probably is natural. Then you said something about bartering not needing niceness to work (I believe), which I agree doesn't have anything to do with being nice, but it does not make niceness unnatural.

 

Bwahahahaha! Well, I hope you're referring to my post. The argument may be flawed in its bias (I am not altruistic), but it's simple and easy for just about anyone to understand, and it just makes a whole bunch of sense.

Jesus never asked for any of what transpired, and he never asked people to follow him. If you have something good to say, and people are willing to follow you for it, it's their choice. Besides, God did it because people are evil little bastards. Someone had to die for our sins, and Jesus fit the billing, considering he was the son of God.

 

Ha! This man gets Christianity. I think I'm going to put this on my Facebook quotes.

 

Well, I might understand the concept, but I have a lot to learn.

 

Gross, Jesus told people to follow him. For pretty much the entire New Testament. As for asking to be crucified, no, he asked for the cup to be taken from him in the garden. but followed that statement with "But your will, God, not mine." And yes, I know the whole issue of him being the Son of God but also God is screwy, that's the part you take on faith. and PLEASE don't turn this into a religious discussion. i liked the novelty of debating something that didn't involve religion or communism.

 

I don't feel like finding where, so someone else can do it, but there was a report of a chimp who didn't know how to swim diving into the water to save another chimp who was in danger. I think they both survived, but surely an animal putting self-preservation aside like that for a fellow animal is something to take note of in any discussion of empathy.

 

Hey, I said I had a lot to learn.

As for the chimps, it's easy to put that aside as a "preservation of species" instinct. However, since it doesn't happen very often (or at all) with other species, it might be in direct correlation to how smart chimps are.
I know what chimps you're talking about, though.
Washoe and Penny (both did survive the ordeal, but only because a human in a boat came to their rescue). Washoe had also saved another chimp, Bruno, from a copperhead snake that found its way into their area.
Washoe had even signed "Cry" (because chimps don't cry in sadness) in response to one of her caretakers telling why she had been gone for so long;
A miscarried child.
Empathy is something both people and animals share. But, it's not something that everyone or everything uses. A lot of times, empathy gets in the way of self-preservation, leading to such incredible rescues as those presented above. But, since they all stem from a certain desire, they're not altruistic. Just kind.